Sorry

[YerMaw05]

Hey all the guys that were involved with the trip north. I am really sorry for the outburst, I had a really long hard day and against my better judgement I decided to play. So I am really sorry for the Snapping at Juli and Corvus and and bitching that may have been said. So please treat it as the dick head player and not Jach.<br>
<br>
Sorry guys.<br>
<br>
Yer Maw = cranky teen

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[PensivesWetness]

/me <!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:fuchsia;">holds Magical Cat of Peeing over YerBigMaw's Head...</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->

<p>Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten, annoy, or spam it.<br>
</p><i></i>

[PensivesWetness]

hey it happens. i'm pretty sure the folks behind the keyboard are<br>
<br>
1) going WTF?<br>
<br>
2) Feeling bad...<br>
<br>
3) asking AG so that they can PK you...<br>
<br>
/me <!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:fuchsia;">shrugs</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> it happens. learn from it.

<p>Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten, annoy, or spam it.<br>
</p><i></i>

[darkspyr]

I was not there but I had a session like that awhile back with Kris in the vineyards. At the end I sent tells to Isendyl and Corvus but Felix and Perado, who were spectators, were probably going, what in blazes is going on. I tried to keep it IC but some of my workday bled over into it. Drachala was nice enough to send me some tells, and I really appreciate that. I have cut back on Kris a bit lately and tried to play a couple of more light hearted characters. Oddly it seems to help.<br>
<br>
Maybe we need an apology section to the forum <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
Darkspyr

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[YerMaw05]

Cheers Darkspyr, so its not just me that finds the game stressful at times. I think I am going to take a leaf out your book and perhaps start a layed back character. Now that I have calmed down and looked back at things I feel a bit of an arse for spoiling some of the night. <br>
<br>
It was just unlucky for Ami and me, since the times and things. I am going to try organise a few european runs so that an outburst like that won't happen again.<br>
<br>
Yer Maw

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[randy jordan]

Been there... done that. We all have days, when maybe we shouldn't be playing... Just a few days ago, I was on, and had to TELL the people I was in an RP conversation with, that I just wasn't dealing with things well, and was gonna back out and go.<br>


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[thryllkill]

Well, anyhoo. I tried to tell you in a /t that I didn't think apologies were necessary. Jach and Amiolas do spend a lot of time adventuring together, so Jach having an emotional reaction to the situation made sense, at least to me it did. <br>
<br>
Yeah, it might have caused some friction, but hey, not everything goes smoothly when people are involved.

<p>----------------<br>
I'M COPPING AN ATTITUDE!!!<br>
--Zorak</p><i></i>

[TrooperMaxx]

It's alright, I'm sure Amiolas told you everything turned out alright.<br>
<br>
Wish it just hadn't happened. >_< There was so much chaos and by the time I got to him, it gave me a message that I have to have a line of sight to the person I'm trying to heal.... as if Tiruva didn't have a line of sight to the fugue? PAH! >_<<br>
<br>
And it's quite understandable for grief to give way to anger, causing one to say things they wouldn't normally say. A paladin also probably wouldn't fully understand the deep connection to the land a druid may feel. Nor may he have known the extent of the situation, having been away/busy for a time and having only joined Tiruva on her way up without full explanation.<br>
<br>
Apology accepted.<br>
<br>
~Troop

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[Algernon's Ghost]

I have been thinking about this since the event, and as a DM it has weighed on me some because it happened at the crux of the event, and Jach's behaviour completely disrupted the flow of things, but such is the life of a DM.<br>
<br>
An apology as a player, to the players, is all well and good, but Jach still has some atonement to perform in character. If he wants the other characters to know he is sorry, then he needs to seek them out in game and sincerely apologize, and make ammends. I will not hold any players to just shrugging off what happened and how their characters feel about it because of a player apology, they still are separate.<br>
<br>
From a character's point of view, calling one's supposed friends fools and berating them is a very negative experience, and it diminishes their own selflessness in coming to the aid of the Elder family and their home. Such attitudes are also unbecoming of a paladin. It has been said that a paladin is only human, but this is not entirely the case. A paladin is more than human, he is a divinely gifted champion of his deity, and is held to far higher standards than the average individual, or even the average adventurer. A personality slip is, to a paladin, a grievous event.<br>
<br>
Even though a friend died, the paladin would see that to focus on his grief in that situation was to ignore a higher calling of selflessness. He would still make sure his friend's body made it to safety if he could, but with a threat looming that could potentially entirely destroy the homes and livelihood of a large, extended family, he would recognize that such dire matters required attention first. The event does not just stop and allow everyone to pack up and go home because a party member dies.<br>
<br>
At such a negative outburst, any paladin should feel shame, and should seek guidance through prayer, and should insist to himself that he atone right away. Any paladin who does not recognize the error of his ways (when slipping from any of the paladin's codes), and feel shame and humility is in serious danger of taking a slide away from paladinhood. He could not just go on with life like nothing happened, this has consequences which need to be handled IC.<br>
<br>
I encourage <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>anyone</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> who wants to learn about playing the challenges of the paladin class to visit our website. There is a large section on paladins in the role-playing resources section. This is indeed an incredibly challenging class to play.

<p><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The ends don't justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security."<br>
-Benjamin Franklin</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--></p><i></i>

[YerMaw05]

Yeah I agree, and since that event I have been subdued to glares and question of my judgement, although I thought it would have been treated as OOC since my first post. I know I have to face the repercussions but I play Jach the best I can and sometimes, I do forget I am playing a Paladin. I will confess to a few chaotic acts and things that side step my walk of life. Well what I am trying to say is, I am still a "n00b" at this game, I played 2 PnP games and have been learning through you guys mainly. So please just see this as inexperience, plus it takes me quite a bit to apologize since I'm so damn stubborn.<br>
<br>
Another thing, although it doesn't explain my actions is, this was Amiolas' first scout back and I was pissed that it ended so quickly for him. I suppose that's just the luck of the draw but please see where I'm coming from.<br>
<br>
I thought the forums were perhaps the best way to say sorry, although I will now seek them out in game an apologize, but as a player not Jach for the moment.<br>
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I stick with my feelings that I expressed with AG, I don't want to name names but I have had people agree with me on how I acted as a player. I received a slap on the wrist for taking it out of character and I do feel bad for disturbing all those who were involved's fun.<br>
<br>
I am now being careful on how I act as Jach and will desperately avoid future confrontations like the one that happened.<br>
<br>
Yer Maw

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[Algernon's Ghost]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yeah I agree, and since that event I have been subdued to glares and question of my judgement, although I thought it would have been treated as OOC since my first post.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->I can't just ask the involved players to pretend it didn't happen. They were highly immersed in the event, and to do that completely breaks the story. What happened IC, happened.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I thought the forums were perhaps the best way to say sorry,<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->They are, as a player, yes, which you did.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>although I will now seek them out in game an apologize, but as a player not Jach for the moment.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->It's the IC atonement that is at issue from a DM perspective. You already apologized as a player. As a DM, I want to see an IC acknowledgement role-played through Jach. This can be an opportunity for him to grow in positive strength of character, and in humility (one of a paladin's chief traits), and I look forward to seeing such growth.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Another thing, although it doesn't explain my actions is, this was Amiolas' first scout back and I was pissed that it ended so quickly for him. I suppose that's just the luck of the draw but please see where I'm coming from.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->I do. I understand how frustrating that is. You seemed much more upset than he did (at least through the lens of the internet).<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I stick with my feelings that I expressed with AG, I don't want to name names but I have had people agree with me on how I acted as a player.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->And I will stick to my assessment that the event would not have ground to a halt, no matter who had died (certainly, no one is persecuting Amiolas, or European players here). It was not because it was Amiolas who died that most of the PCs didn't turn back with Jach. Each of them was acting very IC in staying to put themselves between the marching orcs and the Vineyards. Remember that while people can be moved out of harm's way, homes, buildings, crops, land, forest, holy shrines, and livelihoods cannot. When orcs come like this, they come to destroy and desecrate their target. Would Jach have turned back because of one death if his party were the only thing standing between marching orcs and the Temple of the Triad? The land up there which includes two holy shrines, and the charge the group accepted to defend it were no less sacred for them.<br>
<br>
You should also know, and every player here should know, that I am not publicly redressing you as a player on the forums. I want to be clear in this. I chose to speak publicly because paladins are very difficult to play, and I feel others may benefit from this line of discussion too. YerMaw spoke his OOC apology to the community, and this is strictly about the character known as Jach, and the IC events in question.

<p><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The ends don't justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security."<br>
-Benjamin Franklin</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--></p><i></i>

[Amiolas]

I just thought I would say a few things, since it was my character's death that started this incident.<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I do. I understand how frustrating that is. You seemed much more upset than he did (at least through the lens of the internet).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
I do admit I was slightly upset at first about the whole thing, mainly because of the suddeness of Amiolas' death but what happened happened and there was little point (from my side of things, at least) complaining about it. Accidents happen. (Well, I hope that wasn't intentional, anyway <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> )<br>
<br>
Obviously I can't really comment on what happened afterwards, but I see it this way - in the end Amiolas might have died, and Jach might have acted the way he did, but, as AG said, there are good RP opportunities to be had and both Jach and Amiolas can learn from their mistakes and develop from them.

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[Algernon's Ghost]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Well, I hope that wasn't intentional, anyway<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->Of course not.

<p><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The ends don't justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security."<br>
-Benjamin Franklin</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--></p><i></i>

[TrooperMaxx]

Ok, so I read over most of the paladin bit... Yes, that was a pained experience much of the time for me, but it did make me laugh once... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
But anyway...<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Courtesy</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Behave with dignity. A paladin refrains from emotional outbursts, excessive eating and drinking, foul language, and other boorish acts.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
~Troop

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[Algernon's Ghost]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yes, that was a pained experience much of the time for me<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->[rhetorical question]I guess you won't be playing a paladin soon?[/rhetorical question]

<p><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The ends don't justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security."<br>
-Benjamin Franklin</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--></p><i></i>