Evil Characters???

Yyrkroon · Post by **Yyrkroon** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:44 pm

Well, no, goatte, lets start there: 
 
We can all agree PKing is off limits, yes? 
 
What about theft/pick pocketing? 
What is a suitable penalty for such if someone is caught?

AmirahTernAren · Post by **AmirahTernAren** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:04 am

Nay you were not. 
I'd love to see more evil on the Vast. Amirah thoroughly enjoyed her RP sessions witrh Eldoroth. It was extremely interesting in so far as it could have changed radically one's personality. I'd love to see more of that. 
 
So, PK is off limit, I agree. Destroying hours of char. building is not fun. So unless, the DM can guarantee a full Rez, I would consider PK off-limit too. 
 
What else can be done aside from thieving though? 
 
Maybe there should be a place where we could discuss the outlines of a plot for evil aligned characters. Something that would run parallel to the story, or more one off's like assassination attempts on a NPC (like people from the Triad, or Lady Shara)...Or infiltration tasks where your goal is to lead the investigation about the drows off track. Maybe a cult trying to establish a base in the area, or something like that.. 
And conversely, if you have a guild of assassin's it can itself be infiltrated and its plans thwarted.. Don't really know, but it would be good to have more of a driving purpose for evil-minded chars. I am just throwing ideas in the pan. 
What I got from the DMs though, is that they would love to see more well-played evil char, and that they would help us put something together if we come with something that'll really add value to the world.

thryllkill · Post by **thryllkill** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:57 pm

I given it all a lot of thought. (Thanks for all the discussion, it help!!!) 
 
Needless to say I've created my evil character, and I am going to play her that way. My thoughts on it: 
 
She's low level, and has no business trying to kill people. It creates too much risk for her to die. 
 
At the moment she is young, thus has no agenda beyond living in a harsh world. 
 
She will avoid paladins and clerics (good/neutral clerics anyways) 
 
Strive to make friends with undesirables. 
 
Strive to cause chaos when profitable. 
 
Beyond those plans, does anyone have good things to add?

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:28 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>That said, once people know you're evil (and that's pretty difficult to hide with Paladin's around who will spread the word once they've identified you), they will shun you.<hr></blockquote> 
 
A note to all paladins out there: 
 
You must have a good in character reason to use your powers of evil detection. You cannot just go around detecting evil on every character you meet, you should first have some reason to suspect a person is evil. (Ask yourself, "What did this character do to make you believe they were evil?") Indiscriminate use of this power could also be considered rude. 
 
Remember at all times that you are both Lawful, and Good. You would never break the laws in your quest to overcome evil. (the ends does not justify the means for a paladin) You would also require proof that someone else has acted unlawfullly before acting in any way against them. 
 
Don't let me see you running around using that tool like a ranger's tracker tool at every turn, particularly against other characters; not unless you want to lose some xp and possibly shift slightly away from Lawful.

Rahjin · Post by **Rahjin** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:53 pm

i am going to keep this simple. 
The server is too small, there is no where for them to hide and none really rp evil good here (save pcpaf) evil is hard to rp. so i hope that there will be more concentration on playing the storyline than creating evil characters.

pcpaf · Post by **pcpaf** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:04 pm

Amirah. 
 
I was just thinkibg that most Evil charecters are Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics or Rogue ( Rouges can hide and use scrolls ). But maybe I´m wrong <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
I just think that Its a good Idea to have a Evil person who can cast spells. That makes it more easy to hide and get away if needed <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
Thank you for all the good time playing with you <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
Rahjin 
 
YES!!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> This server is "almost" to small to play Evil on. And yes we have no where to hide <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":"> 
Thats why I have made mine more friendly and I get to RP more now... BUT.. You will never know... One day he might get tired of playing nice <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> 
I´m glad you don´t play Trent so much any more. Natham likes you "fighter" and I´m sure we will get alot more good Roleplaying time together <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:50 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>While she sometimes pretends otherwise, she feels no regrets about using her power over animals and nature for her own benefit. She has many times used Stags as hunting dogs with little concern over their survival. They are merely tools - her animal companion though, is different, as he is her truest friend.<hr></blockquote> 
 
The druid is one of the toughest classes to play correctly. Use of animals in this way, treating them as mere tools, without any concern for their survival strictly goes against the base tenets of the druid, regardless of alignment. The druid's greatest role is to maintain the natural balance, differently aligned druids will take different approaches to this goal. 
 
The typical m.o. of the evil druid still does not focus on the use of animals to further his own ends with no regard for the safety of the animals. The focus is more against those that would upset the natural balance, not against nature itself. 
 
Some animals may be willing to aid the druid in defending nature against abuse of the natural balance, and an evil druid would have no qualms with using many different forms of attack against such offenders, but she still should have respect for the animals of the wood since they are a part of the balance she is trying to protect. 
 
Stags are a prime example, the stag will normally run from any threat (except at times during rutting season, but that has no bearing here). Asking a wolf to guard a wood against intruders, or to fight for you for a short time, then sending it on it's way is one thing, the wolf is predatory by nature, but forcing a stag to be your meat shield is forcing the stag to behave in a manner that is diametrically opposed to its nature - to go against the natural order. 
 
Would any druid or ranger use stags in this way? I doubt it. Do I think it is not an in character action to use stags in this manner? Definitely. Will I regard, as a poor IC action, any druid or ranger indiscriminately using any animal to death in the role of a meat shield? Again, definitely. 
 
It is a rare and epic occasion that a druid would ask the animals of the wood to rise against a force that threatens the wood. The animals would do so because of the rapport the druid shares with them, and the druid would do his best to heal those animals that agree to defend the wood in such a manner. Fighting goblins in the Glades qualifies as neither rare, nor epic enough to ask stags to enter combat for you, regardless of alignment. The goal of the druid is the maintenance of balance, not the furtherance of personal goals, and differing alignments reflect slightly varying views on how that balance should be maintained. 
 
The evil druid may have no respsect at all for civilization, but should still holds all of nature as her charge. There is a point at which bending nature beyond it's natural way, in order to do one's own bidding, upsets the very balance that all druids strive to protect.

Yyrkroon · Post by **Yyrkroon** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:00 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The druid is one of the toughest classes to play correctly. Use of animals in this way, treating them as mere tools, without any concern for their survival strictly goes against the base tenets of the druid, regardless of alignment. The druid's greatest role is to maintain the natural balance, differently aligned druids will take different approaches to this goal.<hr></blockquote> 
 
This is where our philosophies part ways I think. 
 
As I have already stated, I find the alignment system somewhat silly. Likewise, I don't necessarily feel beholden to any cookie cutter roles for a particular class. I treat everything in every source book (even game mechanics) as a suggestion and default common ground for different groups, little more. 
 
Yyrika is played far more in the style of a historical celtic druid than the played out 'servant of the balance/nature' angle. Historically, druids were the warrior-priest-philosopher-magistrates of pre-roman celtic Britain. Animal and human sacrifice were common. While they were thought to gain much of their knowledge and power from 'knowing nature' - druid derives from the word for oak - they were in no ways slaves to it. 
 
Would a Druid such as Yyrika protect nature - yes, but only because that is the source of her power; not due to some need to hug a tree. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Would any druid or ranger use stags in this way? I doubt it. Do I think it is not an in character action to use stags in this manner? Definitely. Will I regard, as a poor IC action, any druid or ranger indiscriminately using any animal to death in the role of a meat shield? Again, definitely.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Certainly this is your perogrative as DM/server admin, and I won't argue against that; though I will argue against a very narrow interpretation of what a druid (or any class) can be. 
 
I do agree that a good aligned character would not use animals that way, and since in NWN/standard DnD rangers are limited to good alignments, the point is moot. 
 
The root of your argument all hinges on the preservation of the balance, and while I admit it can be an interesting way to play a certain type of druid, I refuse to accept it as the only way.

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:52 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Yyrika is played far more in the style of a historical celtic druid than the played out 'servant of the balance/nature' angle. Historically, druids were the warrior-priest-philosopher-magistrates of pre-roman celtic Britain. Animal and human sacrifice were common. While they were thought to gain much of their knowledge and power from 'knowing nature' - druid derives from the word for oak - they were in no ways slaves to it.<hr></blockquote> 
 
History is all fine and dandy, but the historical druids and the Dungeons and Dragons druids are two very different beings. Historical druids could not cast magical spells, and had no animal empathy skill. 
 
The D&D druid has never been the same as the historical druid, and is not a slave to nature or the balance, but rather part of it, and performing actions that go against the natural balance would lessen that connection, possibly weakening the druid's powers (read this as alignment shifting out of neutral as the druid becomes unbalanced).

KvasirDin · Post by **KvasirDin** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:32 pm

Uhm.. is it just me, or am I the only one who thought that D&D was what you made it out to be, and not just what gets published in a pretty hardback? 
 
Kvas

Yyrkroon · Post by **Yyrkroon** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:38 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>History is all fine and dandy, but the historical druids and the Dungeons and Dragons druids are two very different beings. Historical druids could not cast magical spells, and had no animal empathy skill.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Well no kidding, I only typed that so you would have some understanding of where the class concept originated. Again, I take the source books as a suggestion and common starting point for a potential limited only by the imaginations of the players involved. 
 
One could also point out how the DnD druid has evolved over time from 1E through 3.5E, variant types in magazines and splats, etc... Those are different ideas from the designers, well call me egotistical, but after playing some form of the game since ~85 I trust my judgement as much as theirs. 
 
I don't need an idea or a concept to be stamped by TSR, WoC, Hasbro, or whomever. 
 
Like I said, your server, your rules; you can declare anything you like. So feel free to view her actions as 'out of character' - I'll just disagree with you that you understand her character.

The Vast

Evil Characters???

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