Dialects and terminology

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:44 pm

I was thinking about terminology when I realized that a lot of folks couldn't follow Faelar when he discusses the 'vermin.' If a character says "goblin" you know what it is and there's little sense of emotion on the part of the speaker, IMHO. I've attempted to portray the contempt that Faelar feels for the goblinkin, orckin, kobold and gnoll races by lumping them all as vermin with descriptives ("pig-like vermin" = orcs, "lesser vermin" = goblins, "militant vermin" = hobgoblins, etc.). It may be me, but if someone says "Oh, no it's an orc!", I'm not feeling it like I would if someone had said "vermin" or "pig heads." 
 
I also hate the use of level when speaking of skills, spells, character level, etc. I like to look at more common terms that could be used to describe accomplishment. Take spells, or "cantrips" as Faelar calls them. "First level spell" sounds very dull to my ears. Why not "cantrip of the first ring"? That has a bigger sense of style, mystery, etc., IMHO. 
 
Character classes. Wizard = "student of the Art" Sorcerer = "natural talent" Bard = "singer of the Art" 
 
What terms do you think that your characters' culture, vocation, etc. might make use of? 
 
Besides the terminology our characters' might employ, I'm interested in dialects. I see Faelar's dialect of Common as similar to that of an over-educated academic, focusing on technical terms and concepts. Karn's common dialect drops certain sounds, like "th" for "t" softened to almost a "d." "Ya" for you. etc. Eddie Sedative's 'Glaisne' was my inspiration for dialects, when I first joined the server. I enjoy reading AtraAngelis' Keldorn's dialect. What do you all think about dialects? Can they add or detract? Can an incomprehensible dialect be a part of a character's poor charisma? 
 
goatte (karn & faelar)

Dracharla · Post by **Dracharla** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:46 pm

When Isendyl first arrived in the dale she didn't speak common. Learning it probably took less time then it really should have since I was lazy about it.. For about a year after that Isendyl had a pronounced stutter when she spoke in common.After a while she became fluent in common, but it is a new language to her and moving from the very rich extremely depthful elven to the more simple by comparsion common, Isen tends to over exagerate her words to make her speech more like elven. I do this by throwing in occasional "elvenisized" words into her use of common, ays, nys, mellon, detha, amin, etc. and I often add extra letters (especially found of y's) because when I say the words outloud it either a.) adds a lyrical singingness to the words and b.) often gives them extra syllables which to my mind makes the words sound more elvenlike. I also play with the way she phrases things when speaking in common, often reversing word order to something more akin to spanish. Now when she speaks elvish I try to use my best english possible to illustrate the difference between the two. 
 
example of what I mean: 
 
Hello my friend I am going to wander the woods what are you doing? 
 
Aluve mellon, the woods I wander thiys day... whys does the day find yu doing? 
 
to me the second just seems to illustrate an offness to the language. 
 
as far as classes for a wild elf at least I see : shaman, healer, tribe elder, and to some extent priest/ess (since wild elf's almost never become clerics) 
 
for some though like Galan, i think even though he is a fighter and a sorceror, he would just simply call himself an "adventurer"

~Dracharla, Bushwhacked Wild Elf 
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 
 
Hello my name is Isendyl and I will be your Meat Shield for the day. In case of emergency please cower! The exits are located directly behind me. Thank you for Flying Pwnge Airways and please come fly with us again!

AtraAngelis · Post by **AtraAngelis** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:47 pm

Well..As far as dialects go..Trying to portray them should only go as far untill they be come Illegible IMHO. As keldorn..many of my Dialect quirks...well about half are actualy mispells of every day words. If you put your self in a deep baratone Scottish accent frame of mind for his speech then youll be able to speak it with no problem and understand how his words come together... 
"Ye see laddie, tis be no problem te be earing me words now ..EH?" 
 
As for terminology... 
Level: Never ever use the word Level IC do describe something about your character...i dont go around saying im a 10 level Database Adminstrator...sounds funny does it not?(well not in my mind..jk) why would your charcter do the same...?? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

AtraAngelis AKA: (Keldorn Battlehammer, Angelo Sabatine, Shen Ju)

jccaton · Post by **jccaton** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:53 am

Interesting discussion. I think what a character "calls" certain classes is an outlet for characterization. For instance, a half-orc that I got killed called every elf he saw a "sorcerer," regardless of their class. He saw them as inherently magical dangerous and emphasized the negative connotations that history has given to the word "sorcerer." Similarly, unless you know otherwise IC , it's probably unrealistic for a character to be able to tell the difference between a pally and a cleric. To the average Joe, they're probably all "priests." I think it's always important to ask, "how does my character know XXX?" before speaking about other characters or their classes or skills. 
 
Some classes, such as fighter and rogue, should almost never be called by their class names because of the inherent variablity in the class--they're just too vague. Think soldier, mercenary, diplomat, locksmith, trapper, scout, etc. 
 
As for spoken dialogue, Rhistel's overreliance on large vocabulary and his embarrasing forgetfulness of names is one way of playing out his 10 WIS. He's smart, but doesn't know when to use a simple word instead of a big one. The former also reflects in some way his desire to overcome his rustic elf-and-ranger parentage and demonstrate his "civilization"--which is sometimes undercut by his penchant for studying obscure texts outside beneath the stars.

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:00 am

I have to admit that I find calling all spells "cantrips" to be somewhat confusing, since level zero spells are already called cantrips. I don't see anything wrong with calling spells "spells", since that's what they are.

<hr />The ends don't justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do.<hr />"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security." 
-Benjamin Franklin<hr />

RaynenArrows · Post by **RaynenArrows** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:29 am

Not to steal the thoughts of the thread, but do clerics call what they use spells, or is a power?

jccaton · Post by **jccaton** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:05 pm

0-level spells for clerics are called 'orisons,' which is similar in meaning to prayer, I think. All the D&D source material references clerical magic as 'spells.' 
 
For variety's sake, some spells can also be refereced by their school, such as the 'blinding colors illusion,' the 'web conjuration' or the 'fireball evocation.'

TrooperMaxx · Post by **TrooperMaxx** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:12 pm

Yeah, I found using the word cantrips for all spells confusing as well. Cantrips are really just the most mundane of spells. Magic that is more a 'trick' than a spell. 
 
Also, Magic of Faerun calls magic that does not originate in the power of a deity 'The Art' (as most know). But it also refers to divine magic as 'The Power', which I only remember ever being used maybe once by Faelar that I've seen. I was considering if I should start trying to use the term more a while back, but I don't know, it just doesn't sound that great to me. I would try to cast it as a respect for the power of the deity I guess, but I think the word power just brings negative connotations too quickly to mind, for me anyway. 
 
What do you guys think about 'The Power'? I hear plenty of people mention 'The Art'. 
 
~Troop

TheRingBearer · Post by **TheRingBearer** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:28 pm

Intersting... 
 
This makes me think of Boppin, who would always speak the "name" of a spell in Draconic. 
 
And then theres always the amusing attempt at trying to properly explain the effects of a spell, espcialy to non-wizards. 
 
Although recently I came across an annoying terminology problem I had. How does a wizard tell the party that "I don't have any more spells left", which sounds really bad. The closes thing I can think of is that the wizard could complain he is "mentally exhausted" (as compaired to a sorcerer "physicaly exhausted") which is how I imagine what spellcasting is like. A wizard who used up all is spells is like a student who just went though 5 hours of SATs. 
 
As for dialects... I can not imagine how to possible do such a thing. Trying to sound "educuated" is hard enough, espcially sense the words you "know" their meaning of is much larger than the words you "think" about using in everyday life. Although, I wonder if having a sheet of Really big long complicated words next to the computer might help with that, and just pick one every 10 or so sentences... Perhaps I'll give that a try. 
 
I know I've rarely spoke full sentences of Dracoinc, But I'd always imagine that if Vincent ever spoke it, it would be very formal. Guess I better skim up on proper grammer... 
 
There are few wizards on the server though, so its somewhat uncommon if I ever get to RP with another wizard. Although... I'm begining to like to the idea of a wizard becoming far more technical and using Draconic in the presense of other wizards. In a way, a Wizard becoming more "wizard-like" in the presense of other wizards. 
 
I know I was a bit confused at first by Faelar's Constant use of the word cantrips, untill he explained in a tell, because I wasn't sure if thats just how magic in FR is like or if its just him. 
Well, I split most magic into Divine magic or Arcane magic. Or perhaps even an Divine Weave or Arcane Weave? But there is also calling it The Weave... Or would that be incompassing ALL of magic? *sigh* I really need to read Magic of Faerun, this close to going to a Barns&Noble and just reading the book off the shelf, can't seem to find any online text on it.

The_Ring-Bearer (EST) 
(Vincent Ap'ren Dista, Mat Bastoni, and Barliz Starlow)

L3 · Post by L3 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:41 pm

I've been messing around with speech patterns a bit with my runty little barbarian, Neville kneebreaker. I won't go as far as to describe his butchery of the common tongue as a dialect, but I will say that I am trying to have him improve at it slowly; he finally started to use another sel-descriptive pronoun.. He understands it fine, but rarely ever had occasion to use it, which is why instead of simply rolling off his tongue, it kinda bouncex around in his head first. I took a few cues in his pronounciation from some ESL students I knew at the university I attended, thamn I made the mispronounciations much more severe. I will admit that his speech pattern is also strongly influenced by "Father Guido Sarducci," and the "Festronk brothers" of SNL fame, not because of any authenticity so much as because these characters just rock.

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:53 pm

Oh, the constant use of 'cantrip' by Faelar is a matter of the arrogance/pride that he feels about Elven arcane accomplishments. OOC: he considers any spell that isn't Elven High Magic to be just a cantrip. 
 
Oh, and the Weave is the source of all Magic, according to 'Magic of Faerun.' Clerical/Druidical spells are the 'Power' and are drawn from the caster's patron deity [think of them as the conduit for the magical energy]. Wizard/Sorcerer/Bardic spells are the 'Art' and are drawn directly from the Weave by disciplined study, innate ability or long practice with one's musically-trained voice [the individual is the conduit]. Now, any of the arcanists (Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard) can be cut off from the Weave if Mystra decides so. Also, Corellon Larethian is considered the one who decides if Elves have access to the Weave, according to 'Patrons and Pantheons.' 
 
Great comments, folks. I've enjoyed reading them, and I know they'll help me with my own RP. 
 
goatte (faelar & karn)

TrooperMaxx · Post by **TrooperMaxx** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:20 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Also, Corellon Larethian is considered the one who decides if Elves have access to the Weave, according to 'Patrons and Pantheons.'<hr></blockquote> 
 
Patrons and Pantheons? I hadn't seen this before... 
 
As far as the Weave, it is the conduit by which magic is generally accessed in Faerun. Magic of Faerun states on page 11 that "Mystra can also bar a deity from acessing the Weave, which would prevent the deity from using magic while in Faerun but not while the deity was on another plane where the Weave does not exst, such as any of the planar homes of deities." 
 
Also, for clarification, Faerun is the prime continent in the world of Toril. So Faerun refers to the continent, and Toril refers to the world. Correct me if I'm wrong. 
 
~Troop

Dabaro Viloufin · Post by **Dabaro Viloufin** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:58 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Also, for clarification, Faerun is the prime continent in the world of Toril. So Faerun refers to the continent, and Toril refers to the world. Correct me if I'm wrong.<hr></blockquote> 
 
 
You are right from a certain point of view. The continent encompasses both the 'region' called Faerun and the 'region' called Kara-Tur(not called this in Kara-Tur though). There is however a great geographical seperation from the two regions. Mountians? Desert? If any at all. I forget. The only seperation from this continent is the continent/region/world(take your pick) of Maztica(sp?) and that I believe is to the far west. 
 
But yes, Faerun is the region that FR encompasses and it lies on the planet Abeir-Toril.(or just Toril if you dont want to waste the time typing 'Abeir'.) 
 
Ok, enough of hijacking, I did have something to add to the thread but got side tracked. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

IG ID: Dabaro Viloufin(Belin Fenk, Timo Jard, Mathel Mennen, Jarvis, Thorin "Cleaver" BoneCrusher)

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:16 pm

Thanks, Trooper, for catching this. Apparently, I misremembered the fact that Corellon Larethian is the patron of magic and Elven High Magic for the Elves, and not the one who decides access for the Elves to magic. Chalk it up to poor memory and a Sun Elf chauvinist's approach to the Art. 
 
Anyway, back to dialects and terminology. Do they help or hurt RP? 
 
goatte (faelar)

jccaton · Post by **jccaton** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:56 pm

As for a wizard being "mentally exhausted," I think that's an OK way of playing it--especially for a sorcerer, whose power comes from within and not through study--but I think there are other ways to go. Think about it--if spell amounts are only tied to physical exhaustion, then why couldn't a wizard cast any spell he knows until he's too tired to do more? There's another mechanism at place in D&D I think. 
 
Here's a quote from the 2nd ed player's guide: "Before a wizard can actually cast a spell, he must memorize its arcane formula. This locks an energy pattern into his mind. ONce he has the spell memorized, it remains in his memory until he uses the exact combination of gestures, words and materials that triggers the release of the energy pattern." Nothing there about physical exhaustion. 
 
Thus, I think it's ok for wizards to say their -spells- are depeleted and not be tired themselves at all. This is the way the authors of the Spider Queen war books seem to handle Pharaun Mizzrym, a drow wiz. 
 
Stronger wizards can imprint more spells on their mind. Thus, it is possible for a wizard to be "out" of spells--to have used all of the "imprints" or whatever word you want to use for that day.

The Vast

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