Skills... (A discussion of RP skills)

Innuvindyl · Post by **Innuvindyl** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:19 am

Okay here it goes... another discussion topic: 
 
What I like to bring up here, is how we go about using mainly the following skills: Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate. 
 
. . . 
 
After an interaction tonight between Ananiki and another character (which will remain unnamed during this post), I decided to bring up our little chat about this skill to the community as a whole. 
 
The situation was, Ananiki sitting by the well, heavily (obviously) wounded as usual, and this other person approached and offered her some healing magic, which she declined... then he tried to use the persuade skill to persuade her into giving in to his healing. 
I was honestly quite reluctant to this, as it is something that she is VERY unlikely to do, but since he tried I wouldn't just decline, so I decided (before rolling of course) that I would add a +5 circumstance bonus to my roll (which was quite a low bonus actually, when adding our bonuses together, I only had a +1 to my roll as opposed to his and that doesn't really reflect the fact that the chances of her giving in to his offer is enormously small <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> ), now I just managed to beat his roll by this 1 point actually, so it didn't get to affect the situation from my point of view... 
 
Afterwards we had a little chat, sicne he was confused about where I got those +5 from, and I tried to explain and we had a general chat about the persuade skill in a friendly manner. 
 
Now what I would like to discuss here, is the general usage of this skill, since I'm not going to let my character being pushed around her personality just because someone comes around with a high persuade skill. 
I will not say that it should be impossible to persuade other characters into different beliefs, but in the above example, I would say that the chance of success is just too small. 
 
I myself once made a bluff character, using the bluff skill to persuade people away from thinking she was stealing from them, when it failed - but of course a simple dice roll is not enough, suficient RP is also required I would say, in the usage of both Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate... 
 
So, before losing the red line - what do all of you think off this... how do we / should we go about these skills... 
 
I have seen them being put into good use several times, and I'm not stating that the above example was not one of them, though it may sound like it. I just wanted to bring up a larger discussion in the community about this topic, so have your says... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> 
 
- - - 
 
*Persuade Check, Roll 1d20: 20 + Modifier: 30 = Total: 50* Now go and make a nice on-topic discussion here... *smiles persuasively*

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub188.ezboard.com/bthevast.showUserPublicProfile?gid=innuvindyl@thevast>Innuvindyl</A> at: 3/21/04 11:19 pm

Rolock · Post by **Rolock** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:36 am

I'd say it's wholey dependent upon the character. In 'most' circumstances 'social' skills like bluff, and the like are 'not' meant to be used in character vs. character. Character vs. NPC or 'NPC' against character, but I rather prefer under most circumstances to role play common sense. As far as 'sense motive' goes vs. bluff, or just plain contest of bluff vs. bluff, they're okay in some situations. I think it should be taken on a character to character basis. 
 
Ask yourself, 'why' your character would refuse healing. Is she proud, does she 'fear' magick, is their some other reason. 
 
For instance, if she witnessed her entire village slaughtered by and evil wizard, then you might 'safely' say that NO amount of persuade roll from a character she's just met would be enough to convince her to except the healing. She'd likely rather die. If she came to 'trust' a witch or magicker down the road, and built a level of trust (likely a monumental task if she's distrustful for a horrendous reason in her past), then you've moved 'beyond' the point where a 'roll' would be needed anyway. Your character's acceptance of healing from this established relation would be based on a long history, and what you know from a roleplay perspective, so a roll would be...a bit silly in that respect. 
 
Social skill rolls with character vs. character interaction should be taken on a case by case basis and worked out between the parties involved. If I feel the need for a roll may spice a scene up, I send the person a tell and ask them if they wish to roll skills for something. Or they me if they want to discern something. 
 
Rarely have I ever used persuade or bluff in a roll vs. a character. Just my opinion. [smiles] 
 
Though your circumstance bonus would be a 'viable' option if you wanted to play it that way. Just give yourself a number based on 'why' she's the way she is. [smiles] 
 
Thanks for your time! [smiles, waves] 
 
Ro -- (Sena Treebottom)

Psilax · Post by **Psilax** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:01 am

Rolock is correct. 
 
Any roll request not coming directly from a DM does not have to be participated in. Feel free to refuse. In fact, feel free to refuse a DM request if you have objections to it. No one should be forced to take part in a Player manufactured roll request, particularly if they aren't comfortable with it. 
 
Simply decline it. Players are Players, and DM's are DM's. We each have our jobs. Not to say that PC rolling and requests shouldn't be done, but only within reasonable limits that you're comfortable with. 
 
In the case with Ananiki, I agree, she would not accept healing from some random male. And moreover, if you are rolling, you don't have to play by his/her rules, if you feel a circumstance check is in order, add it. 
 
-Psi

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub188.ezboard.com/bthevast.showUserPublicProfile?gid=psilax@thevast>Psilax</A> at: 3/22/04 12:02 am

Innuvindyl · Post by **Innuvindyl** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:31 am

Good points Rolock. 
 
Psi, well it was not to justify my actions, just to give an example of why I want the debate <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> ... 
 
Carry on discussing <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

Saxjamm · Post by **Saxjamm** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:49 am

Generally, I do not pay attention to rolls unless it is clear that the given actions about to be performed should be contested. For instance... Ananiki decides she wants to shove Zato around. Obviously, I'm not just going to say "yeah, shove me and I'll go down." Likewise, I know Zato is not a demigod, so Ananiki, given the right conditions, should be allowed the opportunity to shove me. In this case, we roleplay, and we come to a mutual agreement, whether by word, or simply understanding, that this is how things shall play out. And it gets done. Sometimes, Ananiki has been injured, and Zato was given the opportunity to offer healing supplies using the persuade roll. I, as a player, wait for someone to extend the courtesy to me to try and change things via chance. 
 
Ruben has done this on numerous occasions as well. In reality, we have absolutely NO WAY of knowing whether we're getting cheated of gold. And frankly, in real life, I simply don't care. But, as a roleplayer, Ruben extends the courtesy for our characters to "detect" the deed via the dice. 
 
In the end, dice rolls shouldn't really occur unless it is either something that can be contested (like a physical struggle) or a courtesy is extended to another player. I must give you permission to affect my character via dice. In terms of contests, obviously the contests must be mutually reached and understood. Zato simply will not tolerate a level 1 character walking up from behind randomly, pulling out his dice bag, rolling his strength dice,and then claiming that he just gutted me in the back with his sword. Those aren't proper methods of engagement. 
 
Ultimately, what Psilax said holds the most power. We simply do not need to accept dice roll commands. Of course, refusing everything will ultimately disconnect you from the community. You obviously have to give and take. If you're part of a DM run quest, etc., there is a level of courtesy you should extend to both the players around you and the DM's conducting the quest or scenario. But what you deem as simply out-of-character, or implausible, should be taken seriously. Ananiki simply wouldn't accept healing from a stranger... even if my persuade roll was 1d20 +9999 (whoa, final fantasy!). However, in some cases, Ananiki has given Zato the chance to give her healing supplies. Each time, I failed the roll, and it was left at that. In fact, I didn't even know the DC or range. I was simply told what was going to happen. It was perfectly fine in my book.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub188.ezboard.com/bthevast.showUserPublicProfile?gid=saxjamm@thevast>Saxjamm</A> at: 3/22/04 2:52 am

Innuvindyl · Post by **Innuvindyl** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:15 pm

<a href="http://pub188.ezboard.com/fthevastfrm2.showMessage?topicID=138.topic" target="top">pub188.ezboard.com/fthevastfrm2.showMessage?topicID=138.topic</a> 
 
Just add some old discussion to the debate... found out that it's actually not the first time I bring this up :/

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:31 pm

Skill rolls are great for easily defined physical abilities like spot and listen, but don't be a slave to them where character personality is concerned. It is more important that you role-play your character in a manner that reflects her nature. You wouldn't be persuaded into something that you would not already be prone to accepting. It is persuasion, not supernatural mind control 
 
Where Ananiki is concerned, I think the only situation in which she maybe, might be "persuaded" to accept healing would be if she were at one HP and in danger. Even then, I doubt it, as I believe her dislike of males and magic runs far deeper, and would be the overriding factor.

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Skills... (A discussion of RP skills)

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