Farewell note to a wonderful community.

voltesv5 · Post by **voltesv5** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:39 am

I have enjoyed playing on this server immensely. Off and on I've been visiting this server since winter of 2002, and always I was impressed with friendliness of the players, and the vastness of... well, the vast <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> 
 
But it seems all good things must end. During my stay here I've played many characters who did not make it past second level, but were very fun for me to play. I'm sure there are at least few characters who found some of my characters enjoyable as well. I would like to think that Arius Lumire, Ryuzaki Tenken, and Scyld Goodmen, as well as cameo characters that had bits of interesting moments before getting killed by those notorious goblinoids had some positive influence on the RPing community of this server. 
 
However, I found few things that are in need of improvement on this server. First was the campaign. Role playing occurs when characters discuss their backgrounds, differences, similiarities, and beliefs in the overarching backdrop of a large conflict that must be overcome. Without a conflict, the result is a handful of jaded adventurers that just sit around the bench without saying anything. Although a campaign did exist in The Vast, it moved too slowly, and it was exclusive to "Key players" or higher level characters only. 
 
Another problem was the exclusive nature of the role playing circle. Higher level characters had difficult time relating to lower level characters, and often new characters were ostracized to wander the glades alone. Character behaviors differ from one to another and not all should engage one another in a lengthy conversation, but in too many instances, new characters got ignored when they spoke to higher level characters. 
 
The last, but not the least in the area needing improvement was the DM's behavior toward the players. Although DM owns the server, and the server is run by the DM's rules, DM shouldn't threaten a player because the player's role playing style does not fit the DM's mold of what role playing style should be like. A player's attempt to role play around a problem should be met with a polite reminder of rule and technicalities if it entails a breach of a server rule, but never a blunt, disrespectful, and offensive threat. The server community is privately owned, but it is a public domain. Players join with highest expectations to be treated with respect, especially when players treat DM with a respect. 
 
It is my wish that The Vast would grow to be a place for enjoyment for those who love role playing, whether they enjoy playing wise cracking gnomes, a man wish roguish skills that long to become a paladin of Tyr, or an anomalous priest of a chaotic god who wishes to twist his edicts to do something beneficial, because in the end, character interactions that come from unrestricted imagination of the players are what makes role-playing so much enjoyable. 
 
- Hyrland_D'Kaya

ish07 · Post by **ish07** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:41 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I have enjoyed playing on this server immensely.<hr></blockquote> 
Bingo. Yes, this is an excellent server, one full of enjoyment and great roleplay. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>First was the campaign.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Well, you really can't expect a first or second level anything to have a good shot at survival in the warrens, or against drow or bugbear. Heck, 6th level whatevers can have a hard time with bugbears. And I believe Scyld was witness to a very controversial plot discussion at the well, today. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Another problem was the exclusive nature of the role playing circle.<hr></blockquote> 
 
I will agree that this happens, but it doesn't pertain to all players/characters. In fact, I would say that the majority of 'high level' characters do a fine job of interacting with all characters; that's how they got to be 'high level.' 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The last, but not the least in the area needing improvement was the DM's behavior toward the players.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Absurd. The DM's are very practical and understanding toward their players. They accept any roleplaying style, so long as it isn't offensive to themselves or other players. They always have the community in mind, always. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>It is my wish that The Vast would grow...<hr></blockquote> 
 
Indeed, it already is. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. These counterpoints aren't meant to be a strike against you, but as you cite wrongs with the server, I feel compelled to counter. Again, sorry your server stay didn't last longer. Good luck in all things. 
 
Ish.

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:21 am

First off, I'm sorry to hear that you weren't comfortable here. Secondly, I'd like to comment on some statements made in your post. 
 
***** 
 
"Without a conflict, the result is a handful of jaded adventurers that just sit around the bench without saying anything. Although a campaign did exist in The Vast, it moved too slowly, and it was exclusive to "Key players" or higher level characters only." 
 
***** 
 
We don't need a conflict to go out and do something as a group. All it would take would be to say to one another, "Have you ever seen/been to/ [Fill in the blank]?" Then, you're talking about past experiences, what's new, etc. If you were left sitting around the benches, you have to ask yourself how your character was interacting with others. If you play an aloof or nasty character, don't be surprised that you don't get invites. "Too slowly"? If you read a novel, you don't have the main conflict in the first 5 pages. You have to build up to it. Not all events are exclusive to higher level characters, by the way. If you sit and listen to the 'old timers,' you'll get your own ideas on adding to the storyline. You'll get together like minded people and head off East, West, South or North to look into something. Karn isn't in on everything that happens, nor are a lot of the higher level characters. We all take our individual experiences and combine them into a better storyline, IMHO. 
 
***** 
 
"Another problem was the exclusive nature of the role playing circle. Higher level characters had difficult time relating to lower level characters, and often new characters were ostracized to wander the glades alone. Character behaviors differ from one to another and not all should engage one another in a lengthy conversation, but in too many instances, new characters got ignored when they spoke to higher level characters." 
 
***** 
 
With my players, it's about trust. Will your character do something that gets them or my character killed? Will you run off and leave my character holding the bag? I'm not saying that your characters did, but it takes a while for folks to feel comfortable with you at their backs. "Ignored when they spoke to higher level characters"? How did they speak to the higher level characters? If you come up to Karn and tell him to join you on a hunt, he'll look you up and down and tell you to get lost. If you come to him to report a threat to the Dale, he'll give you his attention and very likely interact with you. You have to understand Karn's character hooks before you can really interact with him. Did you try and sell him something? He's a cynical old dwarf, so it's not likely he'll fork over the gold. 
 
***** 
 
"The last, but not the least in the area needing improvement was the DM's behavior toward the players. Although DM owns the server, and the server is run by the DM's rules, DM shouldn't threaten a player because the player's role playing style does not fit the DM's mold of what role playing style should be like. A player's attempt to role play around a problem should be met with a polite reminder of rule and technicalities if it entails a breach of a server rule, but never a blunt, disrespectful, and offensive threat. The server community is privately owned, but it is a public domain. Players join with highest expectations to be treated with respect, especially when players treat DM with a respect." 
 
***** 
 
A DM threatened you? I won't ask you what you were doing, but I would like to say that if it was against the server rules, you should have known it. The DMs have gone to great lengths to make the server rules available to all the players. Everytime I log in after a server reboot, I see that my journal is updated for the server rules, under completed quests. We have the magnifying glass icon in our inventory for info, if we're not sure. You can speak with Lt. Kald on the server. You can read it on this very board. Also, "public domain"? Actually, no. We have been invited to play at the DM's 'kitchen table' and we should respect that privilege. If a DM said, "Goatte you gotta stop using a tactic or strategy or method that you've been using so far," I'd ask them why, but in the end I'd comply or leave. It's my choice. 
 
***** 
 
"because in the end, character interactions that come from unrestricted imagination of the players are what makes role-playing so much enjoyable." 
 
***** 
 
I have to disagree with 'unrestricted.' Some styles, characters, actions just don't fit in well on the Vast. I've run across characters that just didn't fit, as they were supposedly vampires, half-demons, drow, whatever. I, personally, don't find the restrictions of the Vast to limit my own creativity or enjoyment. Prior to playing on this server, I had never heard of the the Vast as a region of Faerun, but I have become fascinated by the opportunities of this region. Finally, I wish you luck in finding another server where you can be happy. 
 
goatte

Haldir Lunamist · Post by **Haldir Lunamist** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:54 am

sorry to see you go Hyrland. I have seen many of your characters come and go and thought you to be a good RP'er. I can see where you are coming from and sense your frustration has reached its limit. 
 
But you should know the Vast is probably the best PW out there so you'd be hard pressed to find one of such stability, longevity, and fun. 
 
I do believe though the PW isnt for everyone and I can only stay on the server so much, even thought it is good for a PW. I think you would be much much happier if you had an ongoing campaign starting from a small group of players and DM starting from a single adventure, where big events and more variety is focused on you and your party. If your interested I'm inviting you to join my weekly campaign with some friends of mine every fri or sat night. I am a big fan of the Vast and try to hold our games as close to Vast RP rules and etiquette as close as possible while still incorporating "bigger plots" more monsters and loot. About 70% Rp or strategy and 30% combat. I'd characterize the Vast as being 90%RP and 10% combat. you can email me at spartanwarrior74@hotmail.com or catch me on the Vast (i always seem to bump into you <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> ) 
 
see ya <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

Innuvindyl · Post by **Innuvindyl** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:43 am

I can only second Ish and Karn. And I think Haldir put the percentages on the Vast quite right... 
 
That being said, I will bow my head in deep deep respect *bows head in front of screen* that for once, a goodbye from a player, did not contain curses and 'bad' language. Deep respect to you for trying to be polite and slightly constructive on your leavetaking. 
 
Perhaps someday you'll return and have another go, if so, we'll see you, if not, may you have a good time on other servers. *waves goodbye*

Cafall · Post by **Cafall** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:54 pm

Ahem. Two issues here that smell funny from all sides, and they are player exclusiveness and DM threatening. 
 
Firstly, the exclusive nature of the upper-crust players. Everyone is like this to some extent—we have established friends, we like to play with them, and we don't want obnoxious people butting in. Granted, this is no reason for people to become closed-minded or rude themselves. The clique thing used to be an all-too-rampant problem among the community's players; I and others saw many heinious acts of selective RP perpetrated (which is not to say I didn't do it just as much as everyone else). We've all matured to varying extents since those days, but I would like to point out that this is not a community problem—it's a problem with the mindsets of individuals, which means it happens everywhere, and as much as I've seen it here, it's worse elsewhere. 
 
As for DMs sending threats to you, I feel like I know the temperaments of the established DMs fairly well and this sounds totally unlike them. However, I will be blunt here. I have seen more than one instance of you, Hyrland D'Kaya/voltesv5, engaging in twinking or acts similar to it, and I know others have as well, so I am not at all surprised that a DM might have told you to knock it off. Maybe they were even rude about it. But you should know that cheating isn't okay, and it ticks all of us. 
 
While the server is not a total free-for-all public toilet or whatever, it is available to the public, and that means that some degree of respect and courtesy should be given to everyone regardless of whether or not they are welcome at the tabletop. Hypothetically speaking, if I was doing something wrong (and I have done some things I'm not proud of), I would not want AG or Psilax chewing on my butt to an extent that seemed excessive. However, I try my best to put myself in their shoes, and often I can understand where they're coming from even if I don't much like it. It would be interesting to see what sparked that second-to-last paragraph of yours. But I've played here for seven months and thus far I haven't gotten the feeling that the DMs are conspiring to create the illusion that they're good, mature people while they try their best to ruin our playing experience, so if the DMs say that they didn't threaten you, that will be good enough for me.

<hr /> 
-- Cafall (Corvus Gwynstredd'ae and Khiasa Restil)

PensivesWetness · Post by **PensivesWetness** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:19 pm

So what me, Ruben and Jurac went through, wasn't necessary<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> ? OK, i *was* jokingly annoyed at Jurac for that part of the misadventure but this? *sigh* perhaps i should have Caller ID added to all the TELLS i get for now on prior to "Answering all bells"<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tired.gif ALT="|I"> ?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all who threaten, annoy, or spam it it.

ShyVast · Post by **ShyVast** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:23 pm

I just wanted to follow up Cafall's post. Yes, those problems of exclusiveness and elitism were a huge problem on the Vast, and they still are to an extent, but I would like to acknowledge that players have come a long way, and I see many long-time players rping with lower level characters, and there has been less and less "rank pulling" according to level. And, a PW is always a work in progress, in my opinion. 
 
I also want to back Cafall's support for the DMs. I've been to a few servers, others that claimed to be "the best" or the most elite due to the sheer numbers they attracted, but never have I encountered such involved, thoughtful, positive DMs. Never have I thought the DMs are out to get me. Yes they may chide from time to time, but that is what they are there for, to improve the PW for everyone, and part of that is reprimanding childish or unfair behavior. 
 
I respect anyone's decision to leave the server, but when the reasons for doing so are posted in the community forums where new players can see them and be discouraged, and when I disagree strongly with the generalities posted, I feel I should speak up about it. 
 
Also, Pensives, can you clarify your post? I don't mean to be rude, or condescending, but I have literally no idea what it is about, or how it relates to the topic.

The Vast

Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Re: Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Re: Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Re: Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Re: Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Re: Farewell note to a wonderful community.

Huh?

Re: Huh?